Afternoon All, 

I think the title says it all!! But I would like to get this sorted out before Sunday Morning ( Nothing like a bit of last mintue.com ) any suggestions or good recommendations with previous experience ? 

Cheers, 

Views: 250

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

There are watt bikes at Cadence that are easy to use - arrive reasonably rested (with a drink), warm up, select 20 minute ftp test option, spend 20 mins cycling as hard as you can sustainably do, read the ftp, drink a coffee but do not eat the tasty cakes (obviously)

Then you will need a powermeter to make use of your new found knowledge of your ftp on training rides - I can talk you through the theory of training with power if you want - but it isn't that complicated

Alternatively you can do the ftp test yourself if you have a powermeter, Garmin and enough clear road to cycle intensively for 20 mins (or do it on a turbo if you don't mind winding up the neighbours)

Lots of gyms also have Wattbikes too if you are a member - some I know are some Better gyms, Virgin, Nuffield etc. I test every 6 weeks as part of my programme on a gym Wattbike to see where I am and to plan the next training cycle.

If you wanna proper FTP lactic test Cadence run them.
PM if interested and I'll contact the guy that runs it.
There nothing "improper" about FTP tests on a Wattbike - and it's an awful lot cheaper than paying a coach to talk you through something you can easily do yourself ;-)

The harder part is working out how to use the FTP result in designing a training programme - if you don't have a powermeter of some sort it can be an academic exercise - albeit if you measure FTp regularly on consistent equipment it can tell you if you are getting fitter (up to a point)

Here's how you do the test on the Wattbike (NB this isn't the full wattbike warm up, you can find an example of that on the BC website) - https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4C9u8UyGnVYZUUxcHBKYThFaTQ. This is the same test we did when you came to Virgin with me. 

But the 20 Min test will be an estimation of your FTP, whereas the blood test that Dean is talking about is a more accurate assessment of your OBLA (onset of blood lactate), but, as Tony says, it depends what you want it for (and how repeatable you want it to be). 

Guessing its for Lanza, tbh do you need the test in advance, will you be able to control your zones when rising out there? Or would you just want to be able to interpret the data afterwards? 

Using a blood test to determine when you hit OBLA is more scientific which is you are Chris Hoy and wanting to train at the absolute limit of your aerobic threshold may well be worth establishing and scientifically measuring in your training sessions.

However on the level 3 coaching course you will attend ;-) the guy from the English Institute of Sport who manages the training of those with "podium potential" pointed out to me that all you need for effective training at our level is to to know the aerobic and anaerobic threshold and to train regularly in the sweet spot below anaerobic threshold - which you hit when you stop talking and struggle for breath

He said this stood by his machine which he said cost more money than you might think reasonable

I guess I am over sensitive to those who seek to make participation in our sport ever more expensive as this has the effect of excluding people who would enjoy it and be good at it without the commercialism playing a role. People should not be misled into thinking a FTP test based on OBLA blood testing is a need to have at our level.

What is necessary is to establish a feel for what your own limit currently is and to be prepared to push that limit consistently three or four times a week to provoke a physiologicical response.

Throwing money at the problem will only make a very marginal improvement compared to consistent hard work - and as you point out avoiding injury.

How much are these FTP OBLA tests?

Lucy Hurn said:

Here's how you do the test on the Wattbike (NB this isn't the full wattbike warm up, you can find an example of that on the BC website) - https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4C9u8UyGnVYZUUxcHBKYThFaTQ. This is the same test we did when you came to Virgin with me. 

But the 20 Min test will be an estimation of your FTP, whereas the blood test that Dean is talking about is a more accurate assessment of your OBLA (onset of blood lactate), but, as Tony says, it depends what you want it for (and how repeatable you want it to be). 

Guessing its for Lanza, tbh do you need the test in advance, will you be able to control your zones when rising out there? Or would you just want to be able to interpret the data afterwards? 

Hmmm to answer my own question four lactate tests (you need to repeat these tests as your body responds to training and your cardio vascular system strengthens meaning you can sustain higher power outputs and your thresholds change) cost £297

Frankly the number of people who would significantly benefit from this degree of probing in our club would be well errr....;-)


I was just explaining what the difference between the 2 tests is. But completely agree, FTP is cheaper, 'easier' and more repeatable, and gives you all the info you need to set training zones and a training programme, and therefore more useful. 

Tony said:

Using a blood test to determine when you hit OBLA is more scientific which is you are Chris Hoy and wanting to train at the absolute limit of your aerobic threshold may well be worth establishing and scientifically measuring in your training sessions.

However on the level 3 coaching course you will attend ;-) the guy from the English Institute of Sport who manages the training of those with "podium potential" pointed out to me that all you need for effective training at our level is to to know the aerobic and anaerobic threshold and to train regularly in the sweet spot below anaerobic threshold - which you hit when you stop talking and struggle for breath

He said this stood by his machine which he said cost more money than you might think reasonable

I guess I am over sensitive to those who seek to make participation in our sport ever more expensive as this has the effect of excluding people who would enjoy it and be good at it without the commercialism playing a role. People should not be misled into thinking a FTP test based on OBLA blood testing is a need to have at our level.

What is necessary is to establish a feel for what your own limit currently is and to be prepared to push that limit consistently three or four times a week to provoke a physiologicical response.

Throwing money at the problem will only make a very marginal improvement compared to consistent hard work - and as you point out avoiding injury.

How much are these FTP OBLA tests?

Lucy Hurn said:

Here's how you do the test on the Wattbike (NB this isn't the full wattbike warm up, you can find an example of that on the BC website) - https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4C9u8UyGnVYZUUxcHBKYThFaTQ. This is the same test we did when you came to Virgin with me. 

But the 20 Min test will be an estimation of your FTP, whereas the blood test that Dean is talking about is a more accurate assessment of your OBLA (onset of blood lactate), but, as Tony says, it depends what you want it for (and how repeatable you want it to be). 

Guessing its for Lanza, tbh do you need the test in advance, will you be able to control your zones when rising out there? Or would you just want to be able to interpret the data afterwards? 

Not wanting to kick the hornets nest again ... how does one determine a lactate threshold which is your functional threshold without testing your lactate?
Don't think it's a hornets nest Dean - just a sensible discussion

The thinking would be that obviously a physical response to unsustainable effort is that lactate levels in the blood start rising unsustainably

That is one of the effects that brings you to a stop eventually

The theory is that at a particular level of fitness, given your genetic inheritance, it is possible that if you challenge your body to work just below the level lactate starts to accumulate unsustainably in your blood stream that limit will be pushed up by physiological responses.

You will also have a mental as well as physical reaction to hitting your "OBLA" limit - most people will stop pretty soon (but we all know our past Chairperson and the ex-Secretary's approach to this limit which sitting on the coaches seat can seem quite alarming). This can mess up
Testing lactate threshold via a 20 minute test if you dealing with someone prepared to routinely kill themselves in training but for most of us we can gauge 20 min maximum effort after a couple of goes at it and the wattage you achieve is a fair approximation of FTP

Accurate enough for our purposes and at £10 not £297.

Most of the coaches in the club can show you how to do the wattbike FTP test and Lucy posted the link

The trickier thing is working out how to use the FTP in training and for that you really need some sort of powermeter - I have a PowerTap hub (which cost £500 which I saved on lactate tests lol)

All these options look great, really appreciated. 

I think I need to go for the Easy Watt Bike FTP Option at the moment as I am under sometime constraints ( Its either full on Lactate Levels OBLA Test or getting not getting a hair cut before I go away with everyone. )

Dean Thank you!! When I can see a bit of free time Ill ping you over an email when I can see a free slot.

Please feel free to kick the hornets nest after I leave this thread :-) 

Cheers,

P   

I found the hornet's nest a most informative hum and buzz. Please keep buzzing!

Reply to Discussion

RSS

Events

Strava Activities

© 2024   Created by Windrush IT Officer.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service